Morning Coffee: The elite students and no-hopers of Goldman and JP Morgan. Video games professionals are transferring their skills to banking (2024)

If you had been wondering what the balance between fear and greed was among young people today, the statistics on graduate applications to investment banks might shed some light. On the one hand, since this time last year the banks have rapidly and repeatedly increased the salaries they’re offering to new recruits. On the other, a banking career looks somewhat riskier than it did 12 months ago, and publicity about working conditions hasn’t got any better. So, which of the two effects won out?

The answer is … ambiguous. According to data crunched by Financial News, applications to Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse and HSBC were down, while Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan were up on last year, Citi was flat and Bank of America declined to comment. Since there were likely to be some firm-specific perception issues in play – constant bad headlines at CS, geopolitical uncertainty with respect to Hong Kong at HSBC – it looks like kids are still keen on the industry.

But the real question which might be raised from looking at the data might be something more like - do any of these numbers make sense? For Goldman Sachs, the global internship program received 236,000 applications for 3,000 places. At JP Morgan, it was 270,855 applications for 4,604 places, of which 54,000 applications went in for the 480 places in the investment bank. Across the industry, even at the firms which saw slight year-on-year falls, the norm seems to be that the crude percentage chance of getting accepted to an investment banking graduate program is a bit more than 1%, but significantly less than 2%.

By comparison, the acceptance rate at Harvard is 5%, Oxford University is 17.5% and for the Navy SEALs it’s about 6%. This might be considered a good thing for the industry, in so far as it represents a conscious attempt to broaden the pool of applicants and take the very best of the best from a wider range of young people. On the other hand, there needs to be a reality check here – in any given year, does it really seem likely that there are nearly a quarter of a million people graduating who would have a realistic chance of making a career at Goldman Sachs?

And if the answer is no, then the challenge to graduate recruiters is almost impossible. No matter how hard they work, there has to be some degree of arbitrariness in the process by which the mountain of applications is cut down to a manageable number which can be given serious attention. It’s pretty likely that the ones who are accepted are, indeed, among the very best. But when you have so many applications to reject, you can be pretty sure that there are also some great candidates among the ones that got thrown away without a proper look.

No wonder there is such a growth industry in algorithmic scoring, video interviews and artificial intelligence for recruitment. Perhaps it’s the modern equivalent to the process apocryphally used by a famous hedge fund manager, who used to throw applications up in the air and pick up the ones that landed right side up. His reasoning was simple – “the last thing I need are unlucky traders”.

Elsewhere, it’s a bit of a cliché to compare securities trading to a video game. But according to William Archbell, an engineering team lead at Citadel Securities, developing high-performance systems for market making really is like developing video games. And he should know; after a decade in the gaming industry, he left a Microsoft-backed studio to work in finance.

The video game industry is notorious for its working practices, and it does indeed seem that Archbell might be one of the few people in the world able to truthfully say that he went to work for Citadel in search of better work-life balance. But his main insight appears to be that the real difference between trading systems and games is that platforms are “optimised for P&L” rather than “optimised for fun”. Other than that, it’s all C++ and it’s all about user testing, iteration and minimising latency. It almost seems a shame – wouldn’t you like to, just once in a while, use a piece of banking software that had been optimised for fun?

Meanwhile

The intern class of 2022 have been living it up on TikTok, making videos showing the lifestyle, the parties and the free food. There is also a growing number of junior banker/influencers, although they seem to be a bit more cautious about revealing which bank they work for. (Bloomberg)

Sam Trabuco, co-CEO of Alameda Research and right-hand man of Sam Bankman-Fried, has stepped down in order to concentrate on “travelling, visiting friends and family, working on myself and whatnot”; he’s also bought a boat. (Twitter)

Cynics of ESG investment often suggest that the “sustainability” factor is really nothing more than “short oil and gas”. Given that, it’s perhaps understandable that Strive Asset Management has decided to capitalise on the success of its first “Anti-ESG” exchange traded fund by launching another one. Every flight delay seems to mean that the bar runs out of champagne. (Bloomberg)

Although “non-financial misconduct” is an enforcement priority for regulators in the City of London, freedom of information requests reveal that neither the FCA nor the Bank of England has fired anyone for drug or alcohol misuse since 2018. There has been some use of employee support lines (about which they’re understandably reluctant to give details), but very few compulsory drug tests. (Financial News)

As more and more people find clever hacks and premium credit cards which allow them into airport lounges, conditions are getting more and more crowded and unpleasant for the road warriors and investment bankers who regard them as their own turf. (Bloomberg)

A strange story of someone who suffered a traumatic brain injury and found that it made her less inhibited and more outgoing – rather than trying to get her old personality back, she decided to use it as an opportunity for reinvention. (WIRED)

Morning Coffee: The elite students and no-hopers of Goldman and JP Morgan. Video games professionals are transferring their skills to banking (2024)

FAQs

Which is more prestigious Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan? ›

Bankers continue to regard Goldman Sachs as the world's most prestigious bank, followed (as always) by Morgan Stanley and JP Morgan. Credit Suisse and UBS lost the most ground in 2022 while LionTree Advisors' reputation improved the most in the eyes of bankers.

How prestigious is a Goldman Sachs internship? ›

Goldman Sachs internships are highly competitive. In fact, the bank is estimated to have a 1.5% acceptance rate — that's more selective than Harvard!

What are the odds of breaking into investment banking? ›

The lucrative and fast-paced career of an investment banker is a highly competitive one. For instance, in a recent year, 236,000 applicants competed for roughly 3,500 internships at Goldman Sachs. This is common across the industry where acceptance rates for programs are typically less than 2%.

What is the acceptance rate for Morgan Stanley internships? ›

The acceptance rate for a Morgan Stanley internship is less than 2%. With tens of thousands of applicants per year, you have to stand out to get in. If you score lower than the benchmark on the online tests, your application will be automatically disqualified.

Is Goldman Sachs harder than Harvard? ›

Bagging a job at Goldman Sachs (GS)' is a phenomenon rarer than receiving an acceptance letter from Harvard University.

Why is J.P. Morgan so prestigious? ›

JPMorgan Chase is one of the world's oldest, largest and best-known financial institutions. With a history that traces our roots to 1799 in New York City, we carry forth the innovative spirit of our heritage firms in our global operations in over 60 countries. Our firm's culture is rooted in our core principles.

Is Goldman Sachs a stressful job? ›

Working at Goldman Sachs can be difficult and stressful, especially in roles that require long hours and intense workloads.

What GPA do you need for Goldman Sachs? ›

Now, when it comes to GPA requirements, Goldman Sachs is known for being quite selective. While requirements can vary depending on factors like the role you're applying for and the school you attended, as a general rule, they usually expect a minimum GPA of 3.0.

Which college does Goldman Sachs hire from most? ›

Top Schools
  • The University of Pennsylvania is one of the top schools for Goldman Sachs, Citigroup (C), and Credit Suisse (CS). ...
  • New York University (NYU) is right with the University of Pennsylvania in terms of where investment banks most frequently recruit new employees.

What is the hardest investment bank to get into? ›

What is the hardest investment bank to get into? Goldman Sachs is often cited as the hardest investment bank to get into, due to its prestigious reputation, highly competitive hiring process, and rigorous standards for candidates in terms of experience, education, and skills.

Is investment banking harder than law? ›

Of the two careers, investment banking requires greater quantitative acumen and math skills. The educational requirements for becoming a lawyer are much more rigid than those for becoming an investment banker.

Is investment banking a declining career? ›

Banks don't break out investment banker headcount specifically, but data released last week by research firm Coalition, suggests investment banker headcount across the industry fell only 4% year-on-year in the first half, which is when many of the cuts at Goldman and Morgan Stanley took place.

What GPA do you need for JP Morgan internship? ›

The general eligibility criteria for most JPMorgan internships are: Authorized to work in the U.S. Minimum preferred GPA of 3.2 on a 4.0 scale. Pursuing a bachelor's or 5th-year master's degree.

How hard is it to get a JP Morgan internship? ›

Last year, JPMorgan said it had 50,000 applications for 400 jobs in its investment banking division, an acceptance rate of 0.8%. This year, JPMorgan says it had 270,855 applications for 4,604 internships globally, an acceptance rate of 1.7%.

How hard is it to get a Morgan Stanley internship? ›

Morgan Stanley Internships Are VERY Hard To Get

That's a 1.1% acceptance rate. Based on those numbers, it's harder to score a summer internship at Morgan Stanley than to get into an Ivy League. Last year, Goldman Sachs' COO Gary Cohn said they had 17,000 applicants for 350 summer analyst positions.

Does J.P. Morgan pay more than Goldman Sachs? ›

Salaries. Of the top 3 common jobs between the two companies, Goldman Sachs salaries averaged ₹5,76,376 higher than J.P. Morgan.

Is Goldman Sachs the most prestigious bank? ›

The Top 10 Most Prestigious Investment Banks for 2024:

Goldman Sachs & Co. Morgan Stanley. J.P. Morgan. Centerview Partners.

Is Goldman Sachs the most powerful bank in the world? ›

Goldman Sachs is the second largest investment bank in the world by revenue and is ranked 55th on the Fortune 500 list of the largest United States corporations by total revenue. In Forbes Global 2000 2023, Goldman Sachs ranked 34th.

Is J.P. Morgan the most powerful bank? ›

JPMorgan Chase & Co. is an American multinational financial institution headquartered in New York City and incorporated in Delaware. It is the largest bank in the United States and the world's largest bank by market capitalization as of 2023.

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